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which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?

by "SynopsysFPGAexpress" <fpgas@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jun 18, 2008 at 06:01 PM

As commodity PC hardware and prouctivity applications deline in price, EDA 
tools are as (relatively) expensive as ever, necessitating yet another 
discussion of "Which simulator is right for me?"

The contendors are ...

1) Aldec Active-HDL
   + great design-flow assistants (state-diagram, block-diagram,
      waveform-diagram editing, ex****t to PDF)
   + possibly faster than Modelsim/PE?
   - no direct sup****t in FPGA design-suites (Webpack/Quartus)
   - Windoze only (can WINE 1.0 run it?)
   - Systemverilog is almost but not quite usable ('package' not 
sup****ted?!?)
   "less than $6000 for mixed-lang. VHDL+Verilog simulation"
     (Note, that configuration is the most basic, doesn't have 
SWIFT/Smartmodel)
    [first year pepetual-license, yearly maint. is additional 20%/year]

2) Mentor Modelsim PE
  + currently more solid Systemverilog sup****t than Active-HDL,
      (but limited to design-constructs, no assertions/coverage)
  + de-facto industry standard,
     direct integration into FPGA design-suites (Webpack/Quartus)
  + SWIFT/Smartmodel sup****t (no extra cost if using mixed-HDL license)
  - I really don't like the integrated waveform viewer
  - Windoze only (can WINE 1.0 run it?)
   "less than $10,000 for mixed-lang. VHDL+Verilog simulation"
    [first year perpetual-license, yearly maint. is additional 20%/year]

3) FPGA-vendor OEM solution (usually a crippled Modelsim/PE)
   + cheapest
   + Altera Modelsim officially sup****ts Linux (Xilinx does not)
   + Xilinx Modelsim has same level of (design construct) Systemverilog
       sup****t as Modelsim/PE, quite good actually
   - limited capacity, deliberately slower runtime performance
   - term-based only (no perpetual license for Xilinx/Altera?)
   - no mixed-HDL (VHDL+Verilog)  -- deal-killer for me...
   "less than $1500 for 1-language, 1-year license"

If I only had to do 'abstract' RTL-design (algorithm proof, no 
device-dependent instantiations...)

*4) gHDL, Icarus Verilog
    + free, open-source VHDL, Verilog
    - emacs/gvim not included
    - no mixed-HDL (VHDL+Verilog) sim

..............

Kidding aside, my real requirements:

1) I foresee mixed-HDL as a *requirement* for any serious consulting job. 
(Xilinx and Altera are pretty good about providing  'HDL-neutral IP', but 
third-parties aren't.)

2) ASIC sign-off is obviously not a concern -- who's going to compete with
a 
professional turn-key bureau?

3) Design-size (capacity) is an unknown.  For front-end (RTL) simulation,
I 
think even the OEM Modelsims are adequate.  But for gate-level, that might

push them over the limit.  It's interesting that even a 'budget' <$500 
FPGA-board already has sufficient gate-capacity to overwhelm a 
single-designer...progress!

3) validation/qualification with fpga vendor. I like Active-HDL's 
user-interface more than Modelsim, but I can't escape the fact that 
Modelsim/PE has wider industry endorsement.  It's hard to argue with the 
management types who're more interested in checkboxes than the less 
tangibles  (oh ... like ... employee productivity?)

Finally, I note the irony of Modelsim/Altera and Modelsim/Xilinx editions.

Altera Quartus-II sup****ts Systemverilog synthesis, quite well, actually. 
But Altera's Modelsim is based on the aging 6.1g version, which is 
regrettably limited.  Xilinx Webpack doesn't sup****t Systemverilog, but 
their Modelsim/XE is based on the more recent 6.3c codebase.  I find it 
useful for testbenching, though too many colleagues heckle me for my 
systemverilog "religion."  (I believe in it, and so should they.)
 




 37 Posts in Topic:
which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
"SynopsysFPGAexpress  2008-06-18 18:01:59 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Mike Treseler <mtresel  2008-06-18 23:04:52 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
"SynopsysFPGAexpress  2008-06-19 17:52:41 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Muzaffer Kal <kal@[EMA  2008-06-18 23:38:42 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Brian Drummond <brian_  2008-06-19 14:32:35 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
jprovidenza@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-06-19 07:13:59 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Kevin Neilson <kevin_n  2008-06-19 12:35:00 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
jhallen@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-06-19 19:27:10 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Kim Enkovaara <kim.enk  2008-06-23 08:00:29 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Petter Gustad <newsmai  2008-06-23 14:32:51 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
"SynopsysFPGAexpress  2008-06-23 06:50:27 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Petter Gustad <newsmai  2008-06-24 09:47:24 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
rickman <gnuarm@[EMAIL  2008-06-19 19:36:50 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
kkoorndyk <kris.koornd  2008-06-20 06:30:08 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Jason Zheng <Xin.Zheng  2008-06-19 12:47:37 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
jhallen@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-06-19 21:42:22 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Patrick Dubois <prdubo  2008-06-19 15:10:59 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
rickman <gnuarm@[EMAIL  2008-06-19 19:45:39 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Patrick Dubois <prdubo  2008-06-20 07:46:37 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Mike Treseler <mike_tr  2008-06-20 10:37:03 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
rickman <gnuarm@[EMAIL  2008-06-22 05:57:22 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Mike Treseler <mtresel  2008-06-22 07:24:28 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
"SynopsysFPGAexpress  2008-06-22 07:30:54 
Editors doing things for you (was Re: which commercial HDL-Simul
Martin Thompson <marti  2008-06-23 09:58:45 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
General Schvantzkopf <  2008-06-20 06:41:11 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
"HT-Lab" <ha  2008-06-20 14:21:43 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Mike Treseler <mtresel  2008-06-20 07:51:58 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
jhallen@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-06-20 15:53:44 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
ghelbig <ghelbig@[EMAI  2008-06-20 13:55:53 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
General Schvantzkopf <  2008-06-20 10:52:13 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
jhallen@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-06-20 15:57:59 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Mike Treseler <mike_tr  2008-06-20 11:04:13 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Petter Gustad <newsmai  2008-06-21 21:42:08 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
General Schvantzkopf <  2008-06-20 11:11:40 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
Jason Zheng <Xin.Zheng  2008-06-20 10:07:19 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
General Schvantzkopf <  2008-06-20 13:21:23 
Re: which commercial HDL-Simulator for FPGA?
General Schvantzkopf <  2008-06-21 20:21:31 

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tan12V112 Mon Dec 1 14:36:05 CST 2008.